StarBuzz Weekly, Toronto-Operator: Thank you for joining us for a conference call hosted by the Honourable Jason Kenney, Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism. Please note that during the Q&A portion of the call, you will need to press star 1 to be placed into a queue to ask a question. We ask each journalist to please limit to one question.
Merci de vous joindre à nous pour la téléconférence tenue par l’honorable Jason Kenney, ministre de la Citoyenneté, de l’Immigration et du Multiculturalisme. Veuillez noter que pendant la période réservée aux questions vous devriez appuyer sur la touche étoile suivie du 1 afin d’être mis en fil d’attente pour pouvoir poser une question principale. Je remets maintenant la parole à la section des Relations avec les médias de Citoyenneté et Immigration Canada qui sera modératrice de la téléconférence.
I will now turn things over to Media Relations at Citizenship and Immigration Canada to moderate the call.
Moderator: Thank you very much, Sylvie. And welcome, everyone, to this teleconference to discuss the reintroduction of the Human Smuggling bill. Bonjour et bienvenue à cet appel de conférence avec l’honorable Jason Kenney, ministre de Citoyenneté, Immigration et du Multiculturalisme.
So the format we’re going to follow today which I’m sure many of you are familiar with is that Minister Kenney will make his remarks and that will be followed then by a question and answer period. We do ask, as the Operator mentioned, that you do limit yourself to one question when it is your turn and the conference operator will identify you when your turn arrives so you’ll know that it is time for you to speak.
Donc, encore une fois, le format que nous allons suivre c’est le ministre Kenney va parler et ensuite nous allons avoir une question -- une période de questions-réponses. Veuillez limiter à une question et l’opératrice aller annoncer votre nom quand c’est votre tour de parler.
So if you do have any questions that are unaddressed at the end of the teleconference today, please don’t hesitate to contact CIC Media Relations on our line at 613-952-1650. That’s 613-952-1650 and we’d be more than pleased to help you with any questions you might have.
Donc si vous avez des questions toujours après l’appel conférence, n’hésitez pas à nous contacter au 613-952-1650, 613-952-1650.
M. Kenney, je vous donne la parole.
Minister Kenney: Merci beaucoup. C’est Jason Kenney ici, ministre de l’Immigration, Citoyenneté et Multiculturalisme. Je vous parle d’Ottawa où moi et mon collègue Vic Toews vient de déposer devant la Chambre des communes hier notre projet de loi C-4, la loi versant les passeurs de clandestin qui fait partie de nos efforts à défendre l’intégrité de notre système de l’immigration et de protection de réfugiés.
This is Jason Kenney, Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism in Ottawa where yesterday I was joined by my colleague Minister Vic Toews, Minister of Public Safety in tabling Bill C-4, our Cracking Down on Human Smuggling Act which seeks to protect and reinforce the fairness and the integrity of Canada’s immigration and refugee protection systems.
Canada is proud to be the most open and generous country in the developed world with respect to immigration and refugee protection. Last year, we received the largest number of immigrants to Canada is six decades. And our government has welcomed more newcomers than any government before in Canadian history. We are maintaining the highest relative level of immigration in the developed world and we also receive more resettled refugees from around the world than any other country per capita. In fact, our government is increasing the number of resettled refugees who we welcome and we are making the asylum system in Canada even more fair through the creation of a Refugee Appeal Division.
And so Canada is the world leader on immigration and refugee protection. But that leadership and the broad public support for immigration and refugees in Canada is threatened when we see large criminal gangs selling smuggling opportunities to Canada for as much as $50,000. As you know, in the past two years, we saw two large vessels arrive at our west coast, bringing with them large numbers of illegal smuggled migrants who paid as much as $50,000 to these criminal gangs to be brought to Canada in the worst and most dangerous way possible, jumping the immigration queue, making a mockery of our immigration laws and not going through the normal channels for refugee protection.
That’s why our government committed to Canadians during the recent election that if re-elected we would bring forward strong but fair measures to crack down on the human smugglers to stop them from targeting Canada. As you know, we tabled legislation in the last Parliament. We’ve made minor changes to that legislation which was introduced yesterday, is now known as Bill C-4, An Act to Crack Down on Human Smuggling.
This legislation would send a strong message that human smugglers who are convicted will face as much as 10 years in Canadian prison. Ship owners who allow their ships to be used in these disgusting operations will pay fines of as much as $10 million. And their customers, if they get to Canada, will not be able to obtain immediate permanent residency through our asylum system. If they are deemed to be refugees, they will not be sent back to face risk of persecution but nor will they be rewarded for paying a smuggler with quick permanent residency and the privilege of family sponsorship. Rather, they will face up to one year of detention so that we can focus on the appropriate security and police and background checks without overwhelming our immigration system. And, secondly, they – if they are deemed to be actual refugees, they would be given a temporary visa in Canada for five years. If during that period conditions in their country of origin improve significantly, they would be sent back. If not, they could apply for permanent residency after five years and subsequently sponsor family members.
We believe that these measures would fundamentally change the business model for the criminal smugglers who treat Canada like a doormat. Right now, they are providing this service and offering it – in fact we know that they continue to try to sell passage to Canada to people in Southeast Asian transit countries. They’re selling this – they’re able to make this a profitable venture by charging tens of thousands of dollars. We need to reduce the price that people are willing to pay the smugglers to come to Canada. And we are certain that one of the reasons people are prepared to pay more to come to Canada than any other country is because of our very generous family reunification policies and other benefits that come with permanent residency.
That’s why we would take away that privilege of permanent residency from those who come through smuggling operations and are deemed to be refugees for at least five years. We think this would put a huge question mark in the minds of the customers of the smuggling syndicates and make them much less willing to pay that kind of money, thereby turning the black market in smuggling to Canada into an unprofitable business.
That’s the logic of our Bill C-4. We believe that most Canadians insist on Parliament and the government taking strong action to defend the integrity and fairness of our immigration and refugee systems. We believe that these are strong but fair provisions that comply with our legal and humanitarian obligations, including the Charter of Rights. We call upon the opposition parties to support these measures and to listen to Canadians, especially new Canadians who have a real stake in maintaining public support for immigration and a fair system for all where you don’t get to jump the queue by paying people to come to Canada illegally.
Donc hier Vic Toews et moi se présentaient ce projet de loi et qui va envoyer le message très clair aux passeurs de clandestins ce qu’il ne doit pas cibler le Canada pour leur commerce illégal et odieuse. Nous envoyons le message que les gens qui arrivent dans les opérations illégales comme ça ne recevront pas la résidence permanent avant cinq ans s’ils ont déterminé réfugié par la Commission de l’immigration et statut de réfugié. Et d’après nous ça changera radicalement le modèle de commerce des passeurs de clandestins. Ça va diminuer le prix que leurs clients sont prêts à payer pour être ramenés au Canada de façon illégale et dangereux.
So I’m happy to take any questions you have about this or any other issue. So please go ahead with questions.
Operator: Thank you. Merci. If you have a question and you are using a speaker phone, please lift your handset before making your selection. Si vous utilisez un téléphone mains libres, s’il-vous-plaît soulevez le combiné avant d’effectuer votre sélection. If at any time you wish to cancel your question, please press the pound sign. Vous pouvez à tout moment annuler votre question en appuyant sur le dièse. Please press star 1 at this time if you have a question. S’il-vous-plaît appuyez sur étoile 1 maintenant pour poser une question. There will be a brief pause while participants register for questions. Il y aura un court délai vous permettant de vous enregistrer dans le fil d’attente pour la période de questions. Thank you for your patience. Merci de patienter.
Our first question is from Edward Akinwunmi from Mosaic Editions. La première question est de M. Edward Akinwunmi de Mosaïque Éditions. Please go ahead with your question. À vous la parole.
Reporter: Honourable Minister, the C-4 Act that you are proposing, would these in a way also affect nonprofits and church organizations who attempt to get people out of a very dangerous zone? Could that also be categorized as human smuggling?
Minister Kenney: No, thanks for your question, Edward. And the answer to your question is no. The Act would give the Minister of Public Safety the power of designating irregular arrivals and those are defined as a group of persons – excuse me, an irregular arrival in Canada of a group of persons – if the Minister is of the opinion that examinations relating to identity and admissibility and any other investigations cannot be conducted in a timely manner or when he or she has reasonable grounds to suspect that the offence of human smuggling has been or will be committed for profit or for the benefit of, at the direction of or in association with a criminal organization or terrorist group.
So we’re very conscious of the issue that you raise and essentially human smuggling in our current law and in the proposed amendments does not – there is no penalty for those who are involved in this on a humanitarian or voluntary basis. If they’re involved in it to make a profit, if they’re involved in a criminal or terrorist organization, then they face the penalties in the law.
Operator: Thank you. Merci. Our next question is from Nouman Khalil from South Asian Focus. La prochaine question est de Nouman Khalil de South Asian Focus. Please go ahead. À vous la parole.
Reporter: Hi, Mr. Kenney. My question is you just mentioned about a group of – a bunch of people coming into Canada illegally. So how you will protect a real and genuine applicant, a refugee applicant? My second question is about a report that says in Mississauga parental sponsorship applications have stopped so would you please comment?
Minister Kenney: Sure. On the first question, Mr. Khalil, the bill that we’ve tabled would continue to allow even those who have arrived in an illegal smuggling operation to make an asylum claim in Canada. They would get the same treatment, the same consideration for their asylum claim as any other asylum claimant. That would include access to our new Refugee Appeal Division that we are creating.
So let me be absolutely clear about this: even if someone has arrived in a smuggling operation they would – Canada would not return them to their country of origin if our legal system has determined that they would face a high likelihood of persecution or risk there. So we will respect our obligations under the UN Convention on Refugees and the Charter of Rights for people who are deemed to be bona fide refugees in need of Canada’s protection, even if they arrive in these illegal smuggling operations.
I should point out that most Canadians take a more vigorous position than the government is. Two-thirds of Canadians in public opinion polls have said that the government should prevent these ships from entering our territorial waters. And 55 percent of Canadians in a poll taken last year indicated that even those ship passengers who are deemed to be refugees should be sent back to their country of origin.
We aren’t taking those kinds of positions. We are taking what we think is a reasonable position that balances the need to protect our borders with our humanitarian obligation to offer protection to refugees. So absolutely will not send back people to face persecution but on the other hand what we do is remove some of the privileges that normally go to people who are deemed to be refugees, namely immediate permanent residency. So we think it strikes the right balance.
In terms of parental sponsorship, I’m not aware of any operational changes at CIC Mississauga. I’ll look into that for you and if I could ask CIC Communications to get back to Mr. Khalil on that.
What I can tell you, Mr. Khalil, is that I committed during the election campaign that if re-elected our government would consult broadly on an action plan for faster family sponsorship in order to reduce the number – excuse me, reduce the wait times for parents and grandparents. I also announced that our government would ensure that we admit more parents and grandparents this year than we did last year. And I can confirm that that is the case.
Oh, I’ve just been informed, actually, Mr. Khalil, that the department confirms that there has been no change in processing on parents and grandparents in Mississauga and that apparently a letter was sent to some people by mistake but there is no change. So thank you for allowing me to clarify that.
Operator: Thank you. Merci. We will ask each journalist to please limit to one question. Une seule question par journaliste, s’il-vous-plaît. The next question is from Asma Amanat from South Asian Generation. La prochaine question est de Mme. Asma Amanat, South Asian Generation. À vous la parole. Please go ahead.
Reporter: Hi, Minister.
Minister Kenney: Yes, hello.
Reporter: My question is in Mississauga we have also heard from some refugees who are already here, who have been here for a number of years. They say that previously when they used to apply for the health card or the work permit, it used to come within – within like 35 days, I believe. And now they have applied since December of last year and they’re still waiting for their – for their work permits and health cards to be renewed. And they can’t even – they can’t work over here. They can’t collect their EI since they’re not working and they obviously can’t get a job. Are you aware of any such situations?
Minister Kenney: No. Thank you for the question. No, I’m not aware of such situations. I will look into it. Heath cards are the responsibility of the provincial government for permanent residents of course although asylum claimants do qualify for the interim federal health program and for work permits. Now, typically, asylum – my understanding is that asylum claimants get their work permit and their interim federal health immediately upon filing their asylum claim. So I’m not aware of long processing times on that but I’ll look into it.
In terms of those who have been – who are successful asylum claimants, that is to say whose claims have been accepted by the IRB, they then have to apply for permanent residency and my understanding is that typically takes a couple of months on average to process and confirm their permanent residency at which time they should then go to Ontario Health and get their Ontario Health card. And I can’t account for the processing delay – any processing delays within the provincial Ministry of Health.
Operator: Thank you. Merci. Our next question is from Eric Cheung from AM 1470 Vancouver. La prochaine question est de M. Eric Cheung, AM 1470 Vancouver. Please go ahead. À vous la parole.
Reporter: Yes, Minister.
Minister Kenney: Yes, Eric.
Reporter: I would like to know under the new bill what the people say smuggled into Canada still be able to collect social assistance or other welfares just like other citizens in the country?
Minister Kenney: In fact, our bill – our approach would – let me just clarify. Under the current system, people who arrive in smuggling operations are in fact able to obtain the full interim health care program which includes supplementary benefits. We will remove access to those supplementary health care benefits for asylum claimants who have come through human smuggling operations. We don’t believe they should be getting the same treatment – they should be getting better treatment than low income Canadian seniors. That’s entirely unfair. So they would – of course we would have a humanitarian obligation to provide for emergency and catastrophic care and, for example, drugs that deal with – we don’t want people with communicable diseases getting sick in Canada so we would offer – you know, we would provide some basic drug coverage for things of that nature. So but we will reduce the sort of extra benefits in the health care available to these individuals.
In terms of welfare, that would be up to each province. I know that, for example, the Ontario Progressive Conservative Party has proposed to remove – to make such individuals ineligible for welfare payments for their first year in Canada. But it’s up to each province to determine whether or not such individuals actually get welfare.
I have to be honest with you. I think that offering welfare payments to bogus asylum claimants is a big problem for Canada. It creates yet another pull factor, an incentive for people to come and – people who are not really in need of Canada’s protection to come here and make asylum claims. And, for example, right now we have the number one source country for refugee claimants in Canada is a European Union democracy — Hungary. We’re getting hundreds of claims from Hungary – asylum claims from Hungary every month and it would appear that most of those people are enrolling in welfare – for welfare in Ontario even though about 98 percent of the Hungarian – or 99 percent of the Hungarian asylum claimants are found to be false claimants. They are found not to need our protection.
So there is a connection here between generous welfare payments and abuse of our asylum system and I encourage the provinces to look at that.
Operator: Thank you. Merci. Our last question is from Thomas Saras from Patrides Review. Notre dernière question de M. Thomas Saras de Patrides Review.. Please go ahead. À vous la parole.
Reporter: Thank you very much. First of all, let me congratulate you. It’s the first time I have the opportunity to speak directly to you.
Minister Kenney: Thank you, Tom.
Reporter: And, Minister, I spent time yesterday and I read your press release and I agree that this is a wise decision under the circumstances and as they are going globally. My main question is one point that someone has to stay five years in Canada, for example, and in five years during this period of time if circumstances have been changed back home they will be sended back home. I don’t want to use the word deported. But don’t you think that this is sort of a punishment? He is going to spend five years probably working very hard to establish himself in this country and then five years later, because the original reasons for not – they were not existed today, he has to leave back? This is one thing.
And the last one, let me ask you with regards to the family sponsorship. Someone can easily adopt – sponsor his mother or his grandmother or his grandfather. Why not his sister? People are applying for their own sisters and brothers. They are young still. They can come to Canada. They can work. They can help the national economy. And they don’t accept. They say no, it’s only for mothers and brothers – sorry, mothers, father, grandmothers and grand – I don’t understand that. Can you please elaborate?
Minister Kenney: Okay. Thanks, Tom.
Reporter: Thank you.
Minister Kenney: On the first question, let me explain that the reason we – first of all, a lot of the western European countries that have very fair asylum systems offer only temporary protection for successful asylum claimants. And there’s always the possibility that if country conditions improve, they might be sent back because the obligation in the asylum system isn’t to provide – isn’t necessarily to provide permanent residency or citizenship to successful asylum claimants. It’s to give them protection from persecution.
Now we are suggesting that when people pay a smuggler to come here illegally rather than going through this the right way, going to the UN in their region and making an – and going through the process, patiently waiting to come to Canada. But when they pay a smuggler, we want them to think twice before they offer to pay $50,000 to a smuggler to come to Canada. We need to put in their mind a certain doubt that coming to Canada will result in permanent residency and other privileges like family sponsorship.
And so that’s exactly why we’ve designed this policy to say if you come to Canada by paying a smuggler and your asylum claim was accepted, there is no guarantee that you’ll be able to stay in Canada permanently. In other words, don’t pay the smuggler. If you need protection, go to the UNHCR in your region and go about this like legal refugees do. Don’t pay the smuggler. That’s what the five-year possible return policy says. It adds an element of doubt into the calculation of the clients of the smugglers about the certainty of permanent residency in Canada. And we think that doubt is essential to reduce the price that they’re willing to pay.
Fifty thousand dollars isn’t just a price they’re paying to the smuggler. It represents their perceived value of coming to Canada which in many cases they believe that means immediate permanent residency and family sponsorship, family members who will be able to help them pay off the debts to the smuggling syndicates. So this is all for a reason. This is not designed to kind of punish people. This is designed to make them think twice before they sign on the dotted line to pay tens of thousands of dollars to the smuggling syndicate. And, frankly, Tom, we’re not going to be able to do that without sending some tough messages here.
But I’ll tell you what. What we’re proposing is a heck of a lot more kind and compassionate and humanitarian than what most other – than how most other countries deal with these smuggling issues. Like, for example, Italy, which doesn’t allow them to enter territorial waters. Or Australia that puts people under permanent detention until their asylum claim is disposed of and which will now, by the way, under a Labour government in Australia be sending those claimants off to Malaysia for asylum consideration.
On the issue of family sponsorship of siblings, Tom, you know, to be honest, the problem we have right now is that we have huge long backlogs. You know parents and grandparents are waiting seven years for their applications to be processed. As it is, only about 20 percent of the immigrants coming to Canada are economic immigrants, primary economic immigrants. And if we were to further expand the number of relatives who could be sponsored into Canada, one thing would happen. The wait times would get longer, the backlogs would get longer. And that’s cruel. I don’t want people waiting for years and years to be reunited with their family members. I don’t want to create false promises and hopes that cannot be realized. And so there are hundreds of millions of people around the world who would like to come to Canada. Yes, we maintain the world’s most generous family reunification policy. We’re the only country where people can sponsor grandparents, I believe. We have the most generous approach to spousal and parental sponsorship. We allow dependent children up to the age of 28 to be sponsored. And two-thirds of the people who come to Canada are family members. They’re either the spouses or children of primary economic immigrants or parents, grandparents, spouses and children who are subsequently sponsored. So two-thirds are already family members.
You know I think on the balance we need to continue – we can’t completely eliminate the selection of economic immigrants just to make way only for family sponsorship. That’s the American immigration system that most people are very critical of. Most people are very complimentary of the Canadian immigration system because we continue to say that we must select some immigrants based on their ability to contribute to the economy, their education, their level of language proficiency and so forth. So it’s all about maintaining a balance and that’s what I think our system does.
So, well, that’s the last question. Thank you very much, friends, for calling in. If you have any technical or follow-up questions, please don’t hesitate to contact CIC Communications. And the number of course is 613-991-0657.
Donc merci infiniment de votre patience et intérêt. S’il y a des questions à la suite, vous pouvez appeler les Relations médiatiques et Citoyenneté et Immigration Canada à 613-952-1650.
So thank you very much and we appreciate your participation.
Operator: Thank you. Merci. The conference call has now ended. La conférence est maintenant terminée. Please disconnect your line at this time. Veuillez s’il-vous-plaît raccrocher votre ligne. Thank you for your participation. Merci à tous les participants qui se sont joints.
